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jossifer LITO Forum Admin

Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1540 Location: in cahoots
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: S07E02 - Counseling |
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| 30 SEP 2010 - After an incident with his nephew, Michael has to accept counseling from Toby. |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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I always get such a rush of power whenever I unlock a topic, as I just did with this one. It's like I've got a big set of keys, and as some famous janitor once said "The bigger the keychain, the more powerful the man."
Now that I've unlocked the thread, I'll collect my thoughts about tonight's Office; I'll sleep on it, and report back in the morning. |
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kgreene Koi Story

Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 2179 Location: New York/New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: |
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This was an ok episode. Not fantastic by any stretch but not bad. The A, B and C storylines varied in quality. Pam's slickly played move to become an office administrator without anyone actually being aware of it was probably intended to be sort of the "C" story but I liked it the most. First of all, it's Pam and I love Pam. Second, she did a humping motion for Meredith, which I could watch Jenna Fischer do all day but third, and obviously most importantly, it was just a nicely done arc. Pam seizing an opportunity and then manipulating everyone into believing she is (and has been for several months) the office administrator is the kind of Office story I like: Everyday workplace toil turned funny. She reflected everyones personalities when she needed the signatures and she stared down Gabe ( I thought for a second she would cave but you can see her gain strength just by watching her face) and got the job. I like Gabe more and more each week. He has become a welcome addition to the office and he is unlike any other character on the show. Gabe knows he doesn't have the balls but he really tries to sell it (failing mostly). The Pam showdown played to both of their strengths (and weaknesses) so well. My favorite part of the show.
The Michael/Toby storyline scared me for a moment. I thought for a second that they were going to reveal why Michael doesn't like Toby and I would've flat out hated the episode if they had. Bob and I have different viewpoints on this but I just don't see why it would be necessary. Nothing Michael could say would be funny enough to justify 7 seasons of pure hate. It's funnier not knowing something particular. Toby kills Michael's fun and he hates him. Toby actually screwed up here by asking one question too many. He had Michael but he goofed it up. But it ended nicely with the two having to fake their way through another session. Still, it's interesting that they went this way. It almost seems like something that we'll revisit later on when Michael Scott reaches the end of his Office tenure.
The Dwight, Jim and Andy storyline, which I guess was the B story was very up and down for me. First of all, it petered out for Jim. If this were season 2, Jim would've went along with it just to manipulate the whole thing into an expansive prank at the end. Why else would he go? I just didn't understand his motivation in this. Why should Jim care? Didn't make sense to me.
The two best parts of that story was Dwight punching Angela's ticket for an evening rendezvous and Dwight, angered at finding out why he wasn't let in but still trying to be polite (He yells "Good morning!" at the guy while trying to berate him, which made me laugh). Other than that, I didn't find the whole thing very interesting.
Overall, I give the episode a B-. Up and down. If it wasn't for Pam I would've been completely disappointed.
Oh, and the Cold Opening was hilarious. The return of Cousin Mose, Dwight stupidity and a JAM prank to close it. Perfect. _________________ "You gotta get out there and EARN, son!"
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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OK, I've slept on it. And, I also thought a lot about The Office. Almost everybody over at Office Tally loved this episode. While I didn't dislike it, I just didn't think it was very consistently funny.
The cold opening was good, but I found the subplot with Pam was off-putting. I get that the company is poorly run, with little communication and a high turnover in the head office. And I get that Gabe is a spineless jellyfish. And I get that Pam is uncomfortable in the sales world, and would prefer "administrative" duties, which sounds a lot like her old job. I guess I just don't get Pam's casual attitude towards lying and ripping off the company.
Also, I had higher hopes for the exchanges between Michael and Toby. The scenes seem underwritten. Maybe I have to watch them again. That's a plan; I have to watch the whole episode again. |
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kgreene Koi Story

Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 2179 Location: New York/New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | OK, I've slept on it. And, I also thought a lot about The Office. Almost everybody over at Office Tally loved this episode. While I didn't dislike it, I just didn't think it was very consistently funny.
The cold opening was good, but I found the subplot with Pam was off-putting. I get that the company is poorly run, with little communication and a high turnover in the head office. And I get that Gabe is a spineless jellyfish. And I get that Pam is uncomfortable in the sales world, and would prefer "administrative" duties, which sounds a lot like her old job. I guess I just don't get Pam's casual attitude towards lying and ripping off the company.
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That's funny, cause that didn't bother me at all. I like seeing the gray sides of characters and, too be honest. I didn't see anything wrong with what Pam did. I don't even see it as ripping off the company. She's still working there, it's not like she stole money. Plus, it's a cool way of having Pam interact with the whole office again, knowing exactly what Michael and everyone is doing, without making her a receptionist again. It's a clever way of getting Pam beck to her roots. It might've been somewhat abrupt but I like it. And I like how she did it because, although it may be somewhat deceitful, it didn't hurt anyone. Plus, it shows the strength of Pam. She might be, Jim included, the only one in that office to be able to pull that off. She knows how to deal with everybody in there. So that's another reason to like it, because she's back to dealing with all the characters again. When Pam is getting all those nutty personalities bounced off of her she's at her best. And it helps differentiate between she and Jim. They shouldn't have the same job. I never thought about that before but it makes sense. I really like the move. _________________ "You gotta get out there and EARN, son!"
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Last edited by kgreene on Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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OK, I rewatched the episode on Hulu, and here are some of my second impressions: the counseling sessions are better written that I first thought. The humor is very subtle and subdued. I still think Michael's white-hot hatred of Toby should be addressed, and I guess I thought this was gonna be the flashpoint that revealed the simmering grudge.
Michael Toby
This time around, I did catch Pam shmoozing the various department heads, mimicking their personalities in an effort to soften them up to sign their names. That was funny, and it didn't sink in at first. Now, I want to see a deleted scene with Pam somehow "mirroring" Creed to get his signature. Maybe she'll be playing "air bass" to Creed's "air guitar."
| kgreene wrote: | | ...First of all, it petered out for Jim. |
KG, I totally agree with you on this: When Jim announced that he would accompany Dwight to the "scene of the crime," I figured it was a set-up to a spectacular prank. But instead of "petering in," it just... petered out. Now that whole subplot seems underwritten, or possibly edited into oblivion.
A second viewing really improved this episode for me. |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| kgreene wrote: |
...it's a cool way of having Pam interact with the whole office again, knowing exactly what Michael and everyone is doing, without making her a receptionist again... |
KG, we keep posting at almost the same exact time, so the conversation is somewhat even more disjointed than usual. Anyway, you're convincing me that this is a good development. I always thought that Pam becoming a salesperson was a touch unrealistic, given the unique nature of the "sales" world. So, now it feels right that she would express frustration with her innate lack of cutthroat "sales" ambition, and find a way back to her comfort zone, although at a higher level. I wonder if the Office writers are responding to fan criticism of Pam's role on the show?
Also, I completely understand Pam's anguish at having no "sales" instincts. As a bartender, I don't engage in any of the "upsell" techniques that pushy servers use to "drive the check average up." I never say stuff like "Did ya save room for dessert?" That kind of manipulative maneuvering makes me uncomfortable. You won't find me winning any incentive bonuses as a salesman. I wouldn't last a day in the world of Glengarry Glen Ross.  |
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kgreene Koi Story

Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 2179 Location: New York/New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | | kgreene wrote: |
...it's a cool way of having Pam interact with the whole office again, knowing exactly what Michael and everyone is doing, without making her a receptionist again... |
KG, we keep posting at almost the same exact time, so the conversation is somewhat even more disjointed than usual. Anyway, you're convincing me that this is a good development. I always thought that Pam becoming a salesperson was a touch unrealistic, given the unique nature of the "sales" world. So, now it feels right that she would express frustration with her innate lack of cutthroat "sales" ambition, and find a way back to her comfort zone, although at a higher level. I wonder if the Office writers are responding to fan criticism of Pam's role on the show?
Also, I completely understand Pam's anguish at having no "sales" instincts. As a bartender, I don't engage in any of the "upsell" techniques that pushy servers use to "drive the check average up." I never say stuff like "Did ya save room for dessert?" That kind of manipulative maneuvering makes me uncomfortable. You won't find me winning any incentive bonuses as a salesman. I wouldn't last a day in the world of Glengarry Glen Ross.  |
You and me both, Bob. I'm the kind of person to let someone find their own way. If they want help then I can be of assistance. Recommend something maybe. But the hard sell is not my way. And I don't like getting the hard sell either. That really annoys me.
I was wondering the same thing, Bob, about what precipitated the change to Pam's job situation. Was it Jenna or the fans or did the writers realize that they isolated Pam and her strengths are really interacting with others and symbolizing our reactions to the craziness? I think it might've been all of those. In any case, I think it's a good move. We need more good Pam/Michael and Pam/Angela scenes. And this may, in some way, set up more Pam/ Dwight conflict with him owning the building and that's always funny. I like it! _________________ "You gotta get out there and EARN, son!"
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| kgreene wrote: | | ...Was it Jenna or the fans or did the writers realize that they isolated Pam and her strengths are really interacting with others and symbolizing our reactions to the craziness? I think it might've been all of those... |
Jenna is very interactive with the fans, for instance through her MySpace page. And Greg Daniels and the writers have got to be reading the fan comments on websites, such as... uh, LITO! So, I'm guessing that they used the feedback to re-assess Pam's role on the show, to once again "play to her strengths."
Why, right now, I can imagine that the Office writers are reading this thread, and saying "Son of a... gun, those guys at LITO are on to us!"
I've got a good imagination.  |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | And Greg Daniels and the writers have got to be reading the fan comments on websites, such as... uh, LITO! So, I'm guessing that they used the feedback to re-assess Pam's role on the show, to once again "play to her strengths."
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Donna's recap is up on the main page, and holy moley, it is thorough and well-written. I can easily imagine Greg Daniels and his gang going over that recap.
I love Donna's personal aside, concerning Ryan's smug, cooler-than-thou, end-of-show talking head: "Why doesn't he just go back to Thailand." What about BJ Novak's feelings when he reads this!?!  |
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kgreene Koi Story

Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 2179 Location: New York/New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | | Bob wrote: | And Greg Daniels and the writers have got to be reading the fan comments on websites, such as... uh, LITO! So, I'm guessing that they used the feedback to re-assess Pam's role on the show, to once again "play to her strengths."
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Donna's recap is up on the main page, and holy moley, it is thorough and well-written. I can easily imagine Greg Daniels and his gang going over that recap.
I love Donna's personal aside, concerning Ryan's smug, cooler-than-thou, end-of-show talking head: "Why doesn't he just go back to Thailand." What about BJ Novak's feelings when he reads this!?!  |
You know, I completely forgot about that last scene with Ryan, it didn't register with me at all. Have to see what they plan to do with him this season, if anything. _________________ "You gotta get out there and EARN, son!"
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kgreene wrote: | | Bob wrote: |
I love Donna's personal aside, concerning Ryan's smug, cooler-than-thou, end-of-show talking head: "Why doesn't he just go back to Thailand." |
You know, I completely forgot about that last scene with Ryan, it didn't register with me at all. Have to see what they plan to do with him this season, if anything. |
Hey! Wouldn't it be cool, if Ryan didn't show up at all in the next few Office episodes; finally Meredith would casually ask "Anybody seen Ryan lately?" Then, without lifting her head from her paperwork, Phyllis would dryly answer "I think he went back to Thailand." Then, for sure we would know that the Office writers are reading LITO!
I told ya I had a good imagination.
Oh, by the way, the first deleted scene is up:
http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/video/counseling---clip-one/1252255?__source=The_Office%7Chome%7Cvideos%7Crecent
It explains where "Fancy New Dwight" gets his pipe and his, uh... handkerchief.  |
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Donna King of the Stupid Universe

Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Bob wrote:
I love Donna's personal aside, concerning Ryan's smug, cooler-than-thou, end-of-show talking head: "Why doesn't he just go back to Thailand."
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A bit harsh I know, but I really can't stand him lately. I've got a Michael vs. Toby-like feeling of hatred toward him. Why? Not sure exactly. I think they're trying to make him this crazy, hip, cool, guy and it's totally missing the mark for me.
I think I liked the ep more than you guys, but we do touch on some of the same plot points.
We all seemed to enjoy Pam's storyline. Bob, like Kev, it didn't dawn on me about her being a morally bankrupt person for putting this scam into motion. You're right though. It is out of character for our girl. In my mind it was justified in that there is an obvious need for an office manager, and Pam is a loyal employee who would do a great job in that capacity. Still, you're right, Pam's stealing from Sabre.
I really enjoyed the counseling scenes. I thought they showcased the best and worst of both characters. Best for Toby is his compassion at sincerely wanting to help Michael despite his hatred for him. Worst for Toby is what he wrote on the forms to corporate about Michael. worst for Michael is his seething hatred of Toby and the lengths he'll go to embarrass and hurt him. Best is his finally caving into talking to Toby and confiding what we all know (he's just a scared little boy inside. boo-hoo! ha ha).
I do agree that in the Dwight plotline, Jim really had no purpose. I think I was just so excited to see that quad-talking-head that I was onboard for anything after that.
What did you guys think of the Dwight/Angela sex punch card stuff? where the heck are they going to take that plot line?! Are we really going to sit through more Dwangela drama and nonsense? If yes, the writers better make that storyline stellar, because it's beyond ridiculous at this point.
Alright, well gotta run. I've got kids home sick with the stomach flu. Fun, fun! have a great weekend everyone! _________________ "Sandals Jamaica Mon" |
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Donna King of the Stupid Universe

Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I know my recap is riddled with spelling errors. I write directly on LITO's blog site and there isn't spell check. With two kids sick at home I rushed through to just get it posted. But while reading my comments I found this Freudian spelling error
| Quote: | | It seems that Toby put down on the counseling paperwork that Michael has “severe homocidal tendencies” |
tee-hee!
That had my giggling. I think I'll keep that error up there and see if anyone comments.  _________________ "Sandals Jamaica Mon" |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Donna wrote: | | Quote: | Bob wrote:
I love Donna's personal aside, concerning Ryan's smug, cooler-than-thou, end-of-show talking head: "Why doesn't he just go back to Thailand."
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A bit harsh I know, but I really can't stand him lately. I've got a Michael vs. Toby-like feeling of hatred toward him. Why? Not sure exactly. I think they're trying to make him this crazy, hip, cool, guy and it's totally missing the mark for me.
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Donna, we here at LITO are quite concerned about your seething, white-hot hatred of Ryan. I'm recommending a counseling session between you and Ryan, to see if we can get to the bottom of this unhealthy, obsessive behavior. We don't want to see you start to exhibit homocidal tendencies.
Your Freudian slip was one of the best laughs I've had from last night's show.  |
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Iquit Don't Expect Cookie

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 82 Location: Usa
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kgreene wrote: | This was an ok episode. Not fantastic by any stretch but not bad. The A, B and C storylines varied in quality. Pam's slickly played move to become an office administrator without anyone actually being aware of it was probably intended to be sort of the "C" story but I liked it the most. First of all, it's Pam and I love Pam. Second, she did a humping motion for Meredith, which I could watch Jenna Fischer do all day but third, and obviously most importantly, it was just a nicely done arc. Pam seizing an opportunity and then manipulating everyone into believing she is (and has been for several months) the office administrator is the kind of Office story I like: Everyday workplace toil turned funny. She reflected everyones personalities when she needed the signatures and she stared down Gabe ( I thought for a second she would cave but you can see her gain strength just by watching her face) and got the job. I like Gabe more and more each week. He has become a welcome addition to the office and he is unlike any other character on the show. Gabe knows he doesn't have the balls but he really tries to sell it (failing mostly). The Pam showdown played to both of their strengths (and weaknesses) so well. My favorite part of the show.
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Could it be about making Gabe a more important character, cause this episode was the first time I actually felt anything other than boredom, when he was on the screen. I thought that Pam was WAY over the line on this one basically attacking his major character flaw. I was hoping for some double twist like Gabe, pulling a Jim , making her office the supply closet. Still liked this plot line the best good for Pam for getting a better job.
No no! If you cheat and fail, you’re a cheater. If you cheat and succeed, you’re savvy. - Cartman (south park) _________________ I don't spell too good, and my grammar is abysmal. What I will do is for every grammar or spelling error you catch I will give you 100 schrute bucks. |
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Donna King of the Stupid Universe

Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Could it be about making Gabe a more important character, cause this episode was the first time I actually felt anything other than boredom, when he was on the screen. I thought that Pam was WAY over the line on this one basically attacking his major character flaw. I was hoping for some double twist like Gabe, pulling a Jim , making her office the supply closet. Still liked this plot line the best good for Pam for getting a better job.
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I like this viewpoint Iquit. I have also been enjoying Gabe more this season. He's just such a wimpy character. but the writers could have alot of fun with that, so it's not necessarily a bad thing! _________________ "Sandals Jamaica Mon" |
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Bob Most Medium Suspected

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3181 Location: 2780 miles from home (Scranton)
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Donna wrote: | | He's just such a wimpy character. |
Around Dunder-Mifflin, Gabe is the quintessential spineless jellyfish. Is this the same personality he exhibits around Jo Bennett? If so, I would think that a force of nature like Jo Bennett would be disgusted with a featherweight like Gabe. But maybe I'm wrong; maybe she likes having such a malleable yes-man underling, who never dares to question her decisions.  |
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Donna King of the Stupid Universe

Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 1317
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But maybe I'm wrong; maybe she likes having such a malleable yes-man underling, who never dares to question her decisions. Think |
yes, I believe you're right. I seem to remember a conversation Gabe had with Michael about the crazy hours Jo makes him work. He was complaining that he couldn't be in a relationship, etc...
obviously that changed because he's dating Erin now, but it was obvious that Gabe is Jo's bee-otch. _________________ "Sandals Jamaica Mon" |
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